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Ghidra
post May 13 2010, 08:38 PM
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Time for another talkback.

Bad things:

This is actually my first time watching this episode. Gonna say that I wasn't that impressed. In fact, I would've probably ranked this the worst Season 5 episode I've seen thus far if it wasn't for Another Evil Boyfriend.

Liked seeing Martin, but overall it was very blah. Pretty lame plot, and possibly the lamest villain I can think of. I think the main problem here was the script was pretty weak. It didn't even feel like a Totally Spies episode as much as a Totally Spies episode written by someone who only knows of the show passively. Maybe that person watched all the episodes, but yeah it just didn't have the x-factor for me that makes the show good.

Another thing to complain about is that the interactions seemed kind of forced. I liked seeing Sam being bitchy at him, perhaps one of the few saving graces of the episode, but it did come as a bit forced. Also the Jerry x MOM., Marin x Clover, Alex x Martin, stuff in there also seemed kinda forced (well maybe not for Clover LOL), almost like it was from a fanfic or something. XD Maybe this stuff could've worked, but it all felt very rushed. I think they needed like a two-parter to do this correctly. Also the fact that they didin't bother actually having Diana, Java, Billy, etc. appear on screen also made it feel rushed/forced.

Would've liked to have seen more MILF, I mean MOM. XD Kinda lame to see her mostly flirting with Jerry. Her name is MOM not GRANDMA. XD Also no Mandy!!! I thought that was Mandy jumping on that guy's back at the beginning, but it seemingly wasn't. Booooooooo!

Good Things:

Well, they get points for at least attempting a crossover I suppose even though it fell pretty flat.

I liked Sam seemingly going all bitchy on Martin due to him over-rulling her Skully-esque, the paranormal doesn't exist attitude. I also detected a pretty obvious subtext below this that she was really going feminazi on him, not wanting to see a male intruding on their group. I have to say I found this interesting, and it's definitely something new for Sam since she really didn't seem to give a crap about Dean or whoever else working with them. I think this episode also thoroughly proved that adding a male to the group fucks up the whole "girl power" chemistry this show has since they couldn't exactly act themselves with the addition of Martin into the group.

No Real Opinion:

Alex is shown to be much more of a nerd in this episode. She's a jock and a goofy airehead, but now a nerd as well. In fact, she says she wouldn't mind being hooking up with nerds. This is kind of a new angle for Alex as well. Usually, the nerdy one is Sam, although I guess she's probalby too high minded for videogames like Alex is.

Yuri/Yaoi Stuff:

Really not that much here, other than Sam getting pretty pissed off at Marin intruding on her territory as mentioned before. You could possibly read this as yuri subtext if you you tried.

References:

Opening scene of them extracting the Yeti kinda made me recall John Carpenter's The Thing. This wasn't a very reference rich episode though, which again makes me feel it wasn't written by a Totally Spies regular. Other only things I picked up on were stuff from eariler seasons of TS like the uniforms for Iceman Cometh and a lodge that resembled the one from Ski Trip. Of course there was some stuff also from Martin Mystery, but that's a given.

WTF:

Why was Clover saying, "Yummy!" after seeing Marin's teleportation technique? Maybe this one flew over my head, but I didn't quite get that, unless she wants to use it to sneak into boys' rooms. XD

Over All:

Yeah, not much to say. Pretty flat, boring episode imo. This crossover ould've been executed a lot better I think.




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GrandMasterGalva...
post May 13 2010, 10:07 PM
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On the other end of the spectrum, I really liked this episode, and it reminded me of how awesome Martin Mystery was.

It seems to be less of a TS episode and more half of one mixed with half of a Martin Mystery episode, which I thought was really neat.

Looks like Clover continues to be a ho bag as usual, conveniently forgetting she has a boyfriend on the other side of the planet.

Between this episode and the movie, there are hints of a rarely seen violent side to Sam's personality which would have been interesting to seen explored.

Say what you will, but I though Alex/Martin was cute. Also M.O.M./Jerry. I could totally dig that.

I think I made a note of this one the Wikipedia article ages ago, but I think this was the first time that it was ever explained what M.O.M. stood for.


So yeah, one of my favorite episodes of the season actually.
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Ghidra
post May 13 2010, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE
Say what you will, but I though Alex/Martin was cute.


Maybe. I will agree it could be cute, especially with the whole nerdy videogame thing being their point of bonding, but the development of their relationship got like 10 seconds at the end of the epiosode. Well, I guess they talked about videogames earlier while fighting, but it wasn't really that focused on. Like I said they needed more time for this story line. Although, it was good to see him dump Clover for Alex. Also hilariously, Alex has the exact same reaction to Martin leaving her as she did Britney in the previous episode. Out of all the TS characters, Alex definitley is the most likely to go both ways I think. XD

QUOTE
I think I made a note of this one the Wikipedia article ages ago, but I think this was the first time that it was ever explained what M.O.M. stood for.


Same, but I'm sure they didn't make it up for this episode. It probably exists in the "series Bible," which includes meticulous background information about a show (and maybe other information developed in later episodes) that the screen writers use as a reference tool. Not all the information in the series Bible is revealed in episodes, which is why there is still a lot of debate over what Sam, Clover, and Alex's last names are even they most certainly gave them last names during the show's development.




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Trillium
post May 13 2010, 10:58 PM
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QUOTE (J-Syxx @ May 13 2010, 06:44 PM) *
Not all the information in the series Bible is revealed in episodes, which is why there is still a lot of debate over what Sam, Clover, and Alex's last names are even they most certainly gave them last names during the show's development.


I thought Clover Ewing was official since it was given out by a staff member. He gave us Lewis for Jerry way before the show ever made it.

I also keep thinking Vasquez for Alex. Not sure why. This one may not be official at all.

Sam once said Simpson, but I'm not totally convinced cause she WAS undercover at the time.






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GrandMasterGalva...
post May 13 2010, 11:28 PM
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Vasquez definitely wouldn't be official for Alex, given her father is Caucasian and she likely has his surname.

I've also heard that Ewing was debunked by someone higher on staff, though I'm sticking with Simpson for Sam until I hear otherwise.
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Ghidra
post May 13 2010, 11:40 PM
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QUOTE (GrandMasterGalvatron @ May 14 2010, 12:28 AM) *
Vasquez definitely wouldn't be official for Alex, given her father is Caucasian and she likely has his surname.

I've also heard that Ewing was debunked by someone higher on staff, though I'm sticking with Simpson for Sam until I hear otherwise.

Debunked by who? lol Is this one of those things where someone from TSPA just says something and it's so. I'm going to have to see the chat transcript or something.

And Alex's father may be shown as caucasian in Season 4, but it doesn't have to be her birth father. Her mom could be divorced and remarried. Alex definitley doesn't look very mixed to me, but that's just my opinion. Vasquez I think would be a likely last name because it's from the latina badass, Private Vasquez, in Aliens and they've already referenced that film about 100 times during the show.




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Mezoroth
post May 13 2010, 11:47 PM
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First, to nitpick the Syxx (or his terminology tongue.gif) a little bit, I should point out that while Sam once referred herself to being a "nerd", she isn't quite a "geek" for things like vidya games and monster movies. I usually use the term "nerd" for things like academics and "geek" for things relating to hobbies. Hell, one can be both and blur the line between the two, but its also easy to just be one and not the other. So Alex is like a jock and otaku, which kinda balances out a little TOO eerily. If it weren't for her other well established traits and faults I'd pull a Mary-Sue card out. tongue.gif
I think after Comedy Central's "Beat the Geeks" game show did I come to term the word as I do, so take that as you will. whistle.gif

Anyway, the episode. This one is half and half for me. I mean, it was TS and Martin together for what is probably going to be the only time outside of any Mez-verses and the Ultimate Dream Match. But I think I had WAY too high hopes that cumilated between May '07 when the synopsis' dropped, and when I finally found/saw it in Dec. '07. Syxx mentioned the lack of other awesome Martin peoples. (Like...um...I don't know...starts with a D... diana.png ) I think I was also hoping for Mandy to be around, and even at one point, BRITNEY. (I mean, it is right after her arc, and the synopsis' never said she went to Aussieland. So my rationale was just) Just the total cross-pollination of doods and vibes that would've made the episode rediculously awesome.
For some reason, I never learned to lower my expectations for the series, even after season 4, lol.

While hell yeah, it could've been better, I'm glad they still did something instead of leaving us wondering "What if?" (though some may prefer the latter) Gives me an excuse to cameo Martin into the TS5 project as a playable-fighter, meheheh.

QUOTE
I thought Clover Ewing was official since it was given out by a staff member. He gave us Lewis for Jerry way before the show ever made it. I also keep thinking Vasquez for Alex. Not sure why. This one may not be official at all.


I couldn't remember where Ewing came from. I thought someone back at TVTome came up with it, like before Bobby Lameroux came on the scene. It's many ages ago though, so pointing out a surefire source is probably like impossible now. As for Alex's, I forget where that came from too, but I'm teetering toward the old TS lol-cow Tuscon Coyote. All I know is that I've ended up using it myself, since I couldn't think of any good ones.

QUOTE
Sam once said Simpson, but I'm not totally convinced cause she WAS undercover at the time.


I refuse to go with Simpson for Sam, mainly from the one thing (D'OH!) everyone thinks of when they hear that name. I can't imagine Sammy coming from FishBulb. :/

QUOTE
And Alex's father may be shown as caucasian in Season 4, but it doesn't have to be her birth father. Her mom could be divorced and remarried.


I think I may have gone with this theory too, to try and come up with something from that one bump in season 4. She definetly does not looked mixed to me either, and especially since Carmen was only really black in that one episode. In Mommies Dearest and Totally Busted her skin tone was much closer to Alex's and not completely one way or the other like in Alex Schooled.




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Ghidra
post May 14 2010, 01:20 AM
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QUOTE
First, to nitpick the Syxx (or his terminology ) a little bit, I should point out that while Sam once referred herself to being a "nerd", she isn't quite a "geek" for things like vidya games and monster movies. I usually use the term "nerd" for things like academics and "geek" for things relating to hobbies. Hell, one can be both and blur the line between the two, but its also easy to just be one and not the other. So Alex is like a jock and otaku, which kinda balances out a little TOO eerily. If it weren't for her other well established traits and faults I'd pull a Mary-Sue card out.
I think after Comedy Central's "Beat the Geeks" game show did I come to term the word as I do, so take that as you will.


Slang has different currency in different parts of the country. Like if I called Clover a duck, some people wouldn't know waht I was referring to. XD I know you and Trillium made this argument before about nerd vs. geek, but a lot of people make no distinction between nerd and geek. It bascially means the same thing. In fact, even TS didn't make this disinction since Alex and Martin were definitely both called nerds in this episode and weren't exactly shown to be obssessed with math, science, or computers. So even TS mirrors my usgage of the word.

QUOTE
I couldn't remember where Ewing came from. I thought someone back at TVTome came up with it, like before Bobby Lameroux came on the scene. It's many ages ago though, so pointing out a surefire source is probably like impossible now. As for Alex's, I forget where that came from too, but I'm teetering toward the old TS lol-cow Tuscon Coyote. All I know is that I've ended up using it myself, since I couldn't think of any good ones.


I never heard of Ewing before someone said Bobby Lameroux, the head writer for TS, had confirmed that as true before. Of course I wasn't active in TS fandom before 2004 so maybe it was mentioned before that.

QUOTE
I think I may have gone with this theory too, to try and come up with something from that one bump in season 4. She definetly does not looked mixed to me either, and especially since Carmen was only really black in that one episode. In Mommies Dearest and Totally Busted her skin tone was much closer to Alex's and not completely one way or the other like in Alex Schooled.


Yeah, she was definitely super dark in that episode, but it was also retconned later in the season by the previously mentioned Totally Busted. lol




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Trillium
post May 14 2010, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE (J-Syxx @ May 13 2010, 09:20 PM) *
I know you and Trillium made this argument before about nerd vs. geek, but a lot of people make no distinction between nerd and geek. It bascially means the same thing. In fact, even TS didn't make this disinction since Alex and Martin were definitely both called nerds in this episode and weren't exactly shown to be obssessed with math, science, or computers. So even TS mirrors my usgage of the word.


It gets more convoluted in interests where I think someone can be a nerd or a geek. Like say, automobiles. Examples:

Person A knows how a transmission works. This is a nerd.

Person B knows how a rotary works. This is a geek.

Person C knows how the miller cycle V6 in the Mazda Millenia works. This person is a liar. Anyone telling you they understand the vacuum system on a turbo 13b is also full of it.






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post Sep 5 2010, 10:46 AM
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I don't know what to really think of this episode because I've never seen any of Martin Mystery. It seems like an interesting idea, but did they really have to make him basically replace Clover for the second half of the episode? He seems like a sort of funny guy, but kind of annoying and a bit arrogant. I liked how Sam seemed so upset because Martin was basically intruding on their "girl power teamwork" deal. When Sam gets angry and bossy it makes me think of Mandy a little...just a little.

One interesting thing I noticed that I don't think anyone else mentioned, when Martin suggests they all work together, Alex says, "Great idea!" Then Sam and Clover kind of groan. Alex looks to Clover, then to Sam...then:
Attached Image

It seems like Alex is trying to convince Sam by cuddling against her shoulder and doing her little "Mmm..." sound. Clover seems to be shocked, why Alex would do that for Sam over her. I wish Martin wasn't in the way. In the end, Alex's cute little display convinces Sam to consider the idea. Interesting scene if you think about it.

Also, I liked seeing chibi Sam, burning with rage, grab chibi Martin and stick him in the snow. Especially because the very next scene (not chibi) showed Martin pulling his head out of the snow. It's always funny and weird when the chibi scenes lead to a normal scene.





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Ghidra
post Sep 5 2010, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE
I liked how Sam seemed so upset because Martin was basically intruding on their "girl power teamwork" deal. When Sam gets angry and bossy it makes me think of Mandy a little...just a little.


Yeah, easily the best part of the episode for me.


QUOTE
It seems like Alex is trying to convince Sam by cuddling against her shoulder and doing her little "Mmm..." sound. Clover seems to be shocked, why Alex would do that for Sam over her. I wish Martin wasn't in the way. In the end, Alex's cute little display convinces Sam to consider the idea. Interesting scene if you think about it.


Wow fantastic find and very cute. I'm gonna need to rewatch the episode to see this. O__O

It alos made me think of this other point, from Truth or Scare, where Clover seemingly got annoyed at Alex giving Sam attention. XD

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Ghidra
post Sep 12 2010, 06:56 PM
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Just some more observations. Sam's irritation at guys in this episode seems to go beyond just Martin. When Alex says, "I wouldn't mind if some geeks were interested in me," it suddenly cuts to Sam looking ultra pissed. She says she's mad about her not being interested in cleaning, but it seems slightly convenient.

This also happens again. When Alex asks if she can start the investigation "over there by the cute guy," Sam grabs ahold of Alex's hoodie to prevent her from walking towards him and says they should investitage different people while she gives an annoyed expression. Subtext or coincidences? You decide. XD




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Stasis Muffin
post Sep 13 2010, 10:52 AM
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Wow, nice observation! It does seem a bit suspicious. Sam trying to keep Alex away from boys...interesting...

Alex must have caught on and that's why she did her little shoulder grab and "Mmmm" thing to convince Sam...





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